Charge cooler

Has anyone fitted the charge cooler and done away with the intercooler?

I was thinking about just using a silicon U bend from the cooler straight back into the V6 plenum.

What does anyone else think?

Also less weight at the rear most of the car!

I was looking to do that when I first saw one of the barrel types .
But ......what if it springs a leak and stops working ? Also it sits in the worst possible place for heatsoak .I would look at putting it some where else if you go for it .It's just neat and easy to plonk it in place of the plenum .I think you could get a small unit in the old intercooler space ,whether its as efficient is another matter .The std cooler does work fairly well given it's position .
From my test with the two air/air there doesn't seem to be much pressure drop and it's cooler with both by some 6 degrees .I've put a probe just before the throttle body .You really do see the heatsoak when not moving , haven't measured charge temps with a PWR unit .

Funnily enough, I just have. One of our jobs on Rob's DeLorean was to finally calibrate the MAT sensor. I was really surprised by the result. In fact it was so consistent it's almost unbelievable.

This is an unmodified Z7U running an adaptronic on modified flywheel and a different exhaust and "stage 1" turbo with a 4x10" PWR barrel cooler only, pre-rad at bottom right out of direct air flow.

I calibrated the sensor using a mug of water cooling from boiling down to the ambient temperatire of 5 degrees, so the sensor certainly worked! When first powered up, it showed the ambient temperature (and therefore of the throttle body) and after a mile or so, it sat at between 29 and 32 degrees C *regardless of boost*. Even under sustained boost in 4th, the temperature didn't rise appreciably.

Just done that with mine removed the old intercooler and the shrouding seperating it from the engine bay to aid air flow through the bay chargecooler sat verrtically behind the engine mounted off the old exhaust mount & intercooler mounting points silicone 90 bend pipe into plenum! Before you ask it's done that way as i've fitted twin turbo's! Only the ECU left to hook up tho i have a feeling i'm going to need a trigger wheel and TPS using an Emerald ecu. Hopefully it should be mapped n runnig in time for Northerrn Meet although thats probably just jinxed me

Hey mav that sounds interesting, do you have any pics of the buildup or any specs?

What manifolds did you use or did you fabricate them?

Cheers.

That there is an optimum charge temperature? You can run too cooler charge you end up with bore wash it's like when a car is running on choke, not good for fuel not good for the engine I cant remember what the temperature was now ? Does anyone know? I think it is 35 or 36 deg's.

Too cool and you loose optimum burn so I guess if your racing you work out what size cooler you need once up to race temperature; what I am trying to say is that within the realms of getting power, choose a cooler that matches how the car is driven. I am guessing a sprint/hill climb car runs a lot cooler than a circuit car which is on the limit for a much longer period of time. Then however, drive the race car on the road for everyday driving and the cooler maybe cooling the charge far too much and the charge temps fall below optimum.

If the Charge cooler is in the wrong place then relocate or shield it. I dont beleive its good practice to run coolers in series as I understand it is not condusive to good spool up. Longer induction pipes verses the restrictions presented by a second cooler, possibly too larger volume adding lag too, as the volume has to be pressurised by the turbo before peak boost is acheived at manifold. There may only be a tenth of a second it may be more but its all a delay before power is acheived, and how much extra power is acheived for the delay incurred. 200BHP on a standard car 210BHP on the larger cooler but the standard car gets to 200 BHP before the modified car

Which car is quickest From where to where?

Why doesn't someone rig up a charge cooler with the intercooler bypassed, maybe check power/temps before and after. Then drive and see what effects it has on lag.

Its what I understand to be the case, but, who agrees with me that when your turbo car is just warming up the throttle response and midrange is fantastic as is on a cooler evening; dont you wish it drove like that 100% of the time

Horses for Courses

si21 They dont call me Rambling Gamblen for Nowt

PS Clee get a better plumber

Why ? My car is quickest from there to there
It works and is proven to do so with real and logged results , not heresay/booksay .I could get a plumber but then he'd just tell me it was my boiler that was fecked and the whole system need replacing when it was just a washer .....

Stunned figures are relative to ambient remember ? So as that is about 0c at the minute that would tally with my results of 42 ( I can't remember ) 10/15 at time of test .......

So keep the intercooler and charge cooler then?

God, simple question from a simple man!

Should maybe change my name to simplesimon74

Should maybe change my name to simplesimon74

No need ..........I've drawded a picture for ye ....

I likes pixstures me

Stunned figures are relative to ambient remember ?

Nope, being in Celcius, it's relative to the freezing point and boiling point of water at sea level

I bought a multimeter that comes with a thermometer setting and a temp probe. Ambient temp on Friday was 5 degrees C. Temp sensor definitely read up to 85 degrees which was what the mug of boiling water was at by the time I got out to the car...

Si: Cooler intake temperatures means denser air and more oxygen, so more fuel can be burned - I guess if there's an enrichment function based on MAT which is set up badly, you could get bore wash from running colder intake temps.

Warm up enrichment is done by the coolant sensor.

Si: Cooler intake temperatures means denser air and more oxygen, so more fuel can be burned - I guess if there's an enrichment function based on MAT which is set up badly, you could get bore wash from running colder intake temps.

Warm up enrichment is done by the coolant sensor.

We had this discussion on 21TOC sometime ago. Yes I agree cooler air means denser air so in theory bigger bang! However If you freeze water you get more water in your glass, but you cant drink it only lick it "ooooh Errrrrr" very slowy

What I am trying to say is that you can go too cool yes you have a very dense fuel and air mixture ...........Does it burn efficiently......

What is that temperature

And whilst I agree two coolers work, Standard 21 set up) are they working efficiently would one slightly larger or repostioned shielded cooler etc etc work more efficiently with less lag, at the end of the day got rid of the lag on my 21 you get more boost through the whole range. The only trouble is being front wheel drive the power comes in two quickly making launches very difficult....I beleive it was quicker with less power off the line. I also beleive it was quicker (felt) when it was on 17's slightly more rolling diameter more tyre width and the larger flywheel effect damping the sudden mid range coming in. The way to go is proper electronic boost control I think...Oneday

Trouble is where is the lag is it in the induction or is it caused by the exhaust

Plumbing Clee, not for your house , for the intercooler. I dont undestand your theory ....What it the plumbing leaks on the charge cooler? I guess the same if your engine rad fails it over heats and blows up But there again I suppose you carry a spare rad and cooling system dont you

Think how quick it would be if you got rid of the extra rad

Si

If the rad fan goes you normally get a warning light or watch the gauge .If the CC stops working you won't know till you go slow .....

If the rad fan goes you normally get a warning light or watch the gauge .If the CC stops working you won't know till you go slow .....

to that as well then innit .....a man of your means, you'll notice overall engine temp rise though ......if you got time to look at the guages

Not once when I have been hillclimbing have I ever looked at what boost I am pulling concentrating on not leaving the black stuff


Si

Hillclimb smillclimb .......No ,true ,I wouldn't bother looking at gauges either as ,it only takes a minute......... girl .
If I was just doing hillclimbs I wouldn't bother with a CC at all ...Too much weight and too little time for the heat to become an issue so stick wit the std intercooling .
Up der fer tinking ,down der fer dancin .