N2o

The Dastek can control additional injectors .................now isn't that fueling

The Dastek can control additional injectors .................now isn't that fueling

Yes, and where do we put these extra injectors?

End of the day the description 'piggyback' is exactly what it is. It intercepts signals from the original ecu, modifys them and sticks it back into the ecu.

Any thing out of range of the original ecu, is done with extra injectors, sensors etc, and as said before, extra injectors are not the way to go in a performance setup, It is an afterthought.

OK, One more reply , just to chew over

Also, you have to remember, there is no useful mapping after 14.7psi, as the GTA mapsensor is a 2 bar absolute sensor. If the RR map your car for 20psi, it will fuel exactly the same at 14psi, so if you run a boost pressure lower than 20, it will overfuel massively...



This is why the Unichip reads from its own 2.5bar absolute (22psi boost) pressure sensor, so that the Unichip can read beyond the original design of the std car. We could use a 3.5bar (36psi) absolute version if required.

Steve, it doesnt matter if the unichip has its own sensor and can read 100psi -

HOW CAN IT PUT EXTRA FUEL IN TO COMPENSATE FOR THE EXTRA BOOST WHEN IT DOESNT CONTROL THE FUELING!?

Forum;Yes, bigger injectors will be fine for more power, the only thing is the RR will have to completely remap the dastex fully accross the map instead of just tweaking certain areas as it now..



Dastek;We have an injector resize function in the software, that will get you there quickly with minimal adjustment.

The Dastek can control additional injectors .................now isn't that fueling

lol, think of it this way....up to 15psi, we have the factory ecu pulsing 6 injectors in ideal position into each cylinder bore...

yet, if we want to run 25psi on a Dastek, we are relying on an external sensor dumping in loads of extra fuel through just one, or maybe two injectors wacked into the inlet plenum, in completely the wrong position, with badly distributed fueling, most of it sitting on the plenum walls than actually going into the correct cylinder, to do the extra fuel from 15psi to 25psi..

You can make your own minds up..

Dastek;We have an injector resize function in the software, that will get you there quickly with minimal adjustment.

All that does is scale the voltage reading from the Map sensor as I mentioned previously - if the range is near 0, then you cannot scale any lower.

Double

Best thing to do Steve, is ignore the schpiel on the website, as most of it applies to other cars and not the GTA.

Download their installer and setup and manual and the wiring diagram, and then you'll get the gist of what is actually possible.

Dave, This isnt schpiel (what does that mean ) off there site, this is questions put forward to them in relalation to the negative comments on the forum

Has i said, I would think that the ECU when its available will be the better alternative but the Dastek does seem a good cheaper alternative for most who are not contemplating a full re-build with loads of upgrades to the engine internals and monster mods. Like i mentioned i have pages of replys from Dastek & in fairness they have come up with all the right answers.

The original price i was quoted from noble for the Dastek inc Fitting and mapping was £600, It did work out at less then this though

Defo the ast one

Forum; The main problem is, at -20 vacuum on the boost gauge, the map sensor is reading its lowest voltage, so the dastek cannot be programmed to lean the map out by lowering the voltage, as there is no lower voltage to make, so you get lots of overfueling on idle so don't go too large on the injectors..!



Dastek; The thing is that the map sensor is voltage is only close to zero when at complete vacuum, which doesn’t even happen at high speed closed throttle on the over run! So on tick over, the voltage from the map sensor is not zero but probably about 1.1Volts, the Unichip can then make this lower to further reduce the quantity of fuel injected.

Best thing to do Steve, is ignore the schpiel on the website, as most of it applies to other cars and not the GTA.

Download their installer and setup and manual and the wiring diagram, and then you'll get the gist of what is actually possible.

Dave, This isnt schpiel (what does that mean ) off there site, this is questions put forward to them in relalation to the negative comments on the forum

Has i said, I would think that the ECU when its available will be the better alternative but the Dastek does seem a good cheaper alternative for most who are not contemplating a full re-build with loads of upgrades to the engine internals and monster mods. Like i mentioned i have pages of replys from Dastek & in fairness they have come up with all the right answers.

The original price i was quoted from noble for the Dastek inc Fitting and mapping was £600, It did work out at less then this though

When I mean shpiel I mean, they are standard reponses they get from most people and direclty regarding a GTA. For instance, most turbo cars, eg, a MR2 turbo, may be running 450cc injectors, and wish to upgrade to 550cc - now adjusting the map isnt much of a problem, its only around a 20% gain, but go and tell them your GTA is running 185cc injectors and needs to be running 450cc, and see if the Dastek (combined with the original ecu hardware) can cope with nearly 150% increase in injector size...

And as for the Dastek being good for people not having a load of mods, ?, well there is no need for any ecu upgrade if your going to keep the engine near standard. The standard ecu can cope with upto 14psi on its own..

The GTA, to make real power needs boost, and that needs to be combined with a good turbo, chargecoooling, exhaust, fueling and management to run it.

High boost (regardless of engine spec) is a serious issue, and you don't want to be messing with extra injectors, or band aiding ancient Renault technology which was only originally specced for 200bhp..

Dastek; The thing is that the map sensor is voltage is only close to zero when at complete vacuum, which doesn’t even happen at high speed closed throttle on the over run! So on tick over, the voltage from the map sensor is not zero but probably about 1.1Volts, the Unichip can then make this lower to further reduce the quantity of fuel injected.

God, listen to this guy - tickover???

How does he know what voltage the GTA map sensor runs at and even what the tickover speed is?

Complete vacuum is at idle, and you also get complete vacuum when you close the throttle at high rpm, that is why it is called overrun. Now what happens if you are dumping in lots of fuel on overrun - backfire

And then he says you can lower the amount of fuel.....he doesnt know what extra large injectors you need to be running.?? how does it know its going to be enough to compensate..?

Least by you sending these questions, I know that you are at least listening to me and questioning the product.

I have some 'discussions' with people and they are very blinkered..

How much will the Adap be all in ,with the extra bits ,fitted and mapped

How much will the Adap be all in ,with the extra bits ,fitted and mapped

Depends on the spec, around £650-700 with a 15psi base map fitted.

Other than that it depends how much you want to spend on injectors, uprated fuel pump, uprated coil, regulator..etc..

How much power do you want to spend?

Best thing to do Steve, is ignore the schpiel on the website, as most of it applies to other cars and not the GTA.

Download their installer and setup and manual and the wiring diagram, and then you'll get the gist of what is actually possible.

Dave, This isnt schpiel (what does that mean ) off there site, this is questions put forward to them in relalation to the negative comments on the forum

Has i said, I would think that the ECU when its available will be the better alternative but the Dastek does seem a good cheaper alternative for most who are not contemplating a full re-build with loads of upgrades to the engine internals and monster mods. Like i mentioned i have pages of replys from Dastek & in fairness they have come up with all the right answers.

The original price i was quoted from noble for the Dastek inc Fitting and mapping was £600, It did work out at less then this though

When I mean shpiel I mean, they are standard reponses they get from most people and direclty regarding a GTA. For instance, most turbo cars, eg, a MR2 turbo, may be running 450cc injectors, and wish to upgrade to 550cc - now adjusting the map isnt much of a problem, its only around a 20% gain, but go and tell them your GTA is running 185cc injectors and needs to be running 450cc, and see if the Dastek (combined with the original ecu hardware) can cope with nearly 150% increase in injector size...

And as for the Dastek being good for people not having a load of mods, ?, well there is no need for any ecu upgrade if your going to keep the engine near standard. The standard ecu can cope with upto 14psi on its own..

The GTA, to make real power needs boost, and that needs to be combined with a good turbo, chargecoooling, exhaust, fueling and management to run it.

High boost (regardless of engine spec) is a serious issue, and you don't want to be messing with extra injectors, or band aiding ancient Renault technology which was only originally specced for 200bhp..

Thats the contradiction though Dave Mention N2o, Dastek, cams answer = nope 20 year old engine which will blow up

I reckon as on most good forums it shoud be a place to voice ideas and not to knock without any substance i.e. has anyone used N2o on here i fear not, Dastek, nope apart from one standalone ecu, not yet

So anyone trying out somthing new at there expence is great, has Peter is doing with the charge cooler im really hoping that he gets good results next time around with it working, then next will be the Standalone, but how much more power is availble safly on top i.e. clutch, head gaskets anything else which is untried at high boost.

When your saying the GTA needs big boost for more power Dave, What level of boost are you talking above the Safe 16psi surely no more the 20 psi that would start to make nos look safe

Anyway work calls

I hope people don't think Im anti-piggyback , they are very good and clever units, especially on cars that can't be chipped, or have had mods than need the map tweaking, or bigger injectors etc...

..but when you take into account the GTA which has..

Hugely undersized injectors
No throttle enrichment depending on pedal position
A 6100rpm rev limiter that cannot be removed
A low boost cutout that can be 'moved' but not removed..
Unchippable ecu

..you just think bin it all and bring it into the 1990s at least..

Im sure i read or was told over £1000 for the stanalone with all the sensors ect Base Map This will still need a full map on the rollers though 15psi


Work