ECU

Yeah but it sounds cool......

'....and then I blew the turbo'

as opposed to

'....and then the headlining fell down'
or
'....and then the speedo stopped working'
or
'.....and then it came off in my hand'

Best GTA failure recorded on the site so far

i exploded my turbo UN1 'box last year

Hey, it could be worse - the TT DeLorean arrived on the back of a tow truck late last night..... and the problem? Blown coil. Absolutely sod all to do with the new engine. Grrrrr. Tony's is ready for the rolling road now, the colder weather has allowed me to set up at least some of the warmup curves.

If you need a GTA coil pack Ive got one lying in my garage.

Hey, it could be worse - the TT DeLorean arrived on the back of a tow truck late last night..... and the problem? Blown coil. Absolutely sod all to do with the new engine. Grrrrr. Tony's is ready for the rolling road now, the colder weather has allowed me to set up at least some of the warmup curves.

If you need a GTA coil pack Ive got one lying in my garage.

Best keep hold Peter ,these things come in threes ( I'll resist the double entendre , i will-i will-i will )

Cheers Peter, offer much appreciated, but the DeLorean is running the old fashioned Atmo style coil, and here's why...

The Adaptronic can be made to "fool" the stock ignition amplifier (the grey box, same on Atmo) and in turn, drive the coil... but on the DeLorean, this also feeds the idlespeed system (which works beautifully on the TT), the fuel pump relay (switches on only when there're ignition pulses) and most important, the rev counter is low side driven.

Question: Is the rev counter output on the EFI coil packs a low side drive? (or in other words, are the rev counters on the turbos and atmos the same?)

If you look in your Adaptronic config software under "special cases" you'll see "Volvo V6 odd-fire".... this is something I worked on with the guy who makes the ECUs having realised that a Z7U intake manifold bolts right up to the odd-fire heads, meant if the ECU could take the distributor pickup, sort out the peculiar firing orders, and spit back out into the stock ignition amplifier, it's a very fast and easy road to converting an "old" odd-fire PRV to EFI. We've had a DeLorean engine with silly cams idling as smooth as silk with this setup. It wouldn't rev though...... will be working on that again when the "new" donor engine arrives. An Atmo lump going in a DeLorean with EFI and the same silly cams.

Jeez, I'm waffling again

Cheers again

Jeez, I'm waffling again

You certainly are.....get your own thread!!!

*sniff*

Am booked in to the rolling road for next Thursday - so hopefully should get some figures at last. Just hope everything holds together ok, I don't think my patience will take another major setback!

You should get some good results.....my car was seriously fast and 360lbs of torque is an awesome figure....and all at 1 bar! Shame the turbo couldnt keep up!!!!

I must admit I've been quite shocked at the torque figures your engine has been making - the power has been a bit more than I would have anticipated but the torque figure is massively more. Has he been putting in much more ignition advance at the bottom end? Usually the torque and power stay in roughly the ratio unless you change the cam profiles so I would expect a 270 bhp GTA engine to make around 290 - 300 ft/lbs. What revs is it making that torque at? For instance 360 ft/lbs at 4000 rpm would equate to 274 bhp at the same revs. At 3000 rpm it would be making 205 bhp with that torque - more than a standard car makes anywhere! That seems a huge improvement - but then again plenty of 2.0 16v turbos make that sort of power at little more than a bar (STi Imprezas, Evos, Cossies etc) so maybe the ECU just overcomes a major shortcoming on the engine.
I'm a bit concerned about the transmission now though. I reckon 350 ft/lbs is going to be the realistic limit for my A610 clutch and the UN1 'box. I don't think a standard GTA clutch is going to hold that sort of torque for long at all.
There aren't many sub 1200 kilo (or 1000kg in your case Pete) with that sort of torque. By my calculations Pete you should be looking at high 12's at about 110 -115 terminal speed on the quarter with a 0-60 time in the high 4's. I know drag racing isn't your thing but its good for comparing what supercars you can blow away on the road - er sorry private road .
And one other thing when you change your turbo keep it smaller if you want it to be quick round the circuit - you canna change the law of physics Jim so bigger means laggier - or bite the bullet (have they given you guns yet?) and go for a quality roller bearing jobbie to run higher a boost on a smaller unit. My T38 was substantially laggier than standard - although obviously I've never had the chance to drive it properly set up yet!

I must admit I've been quite shocked at the torque figures your engine has been making - the power has been a bit more than I would have anticipated but the torque figure is massively more. Has he been putting in much more ignition advance at the bottom end? Usually the torque and power stay in roughly the ratio unless you change the cam profiles so I would expect a 270 bhp GTA engine to make around 290 - 300 ft/lbs.

But not on an old engine like this, pumping losses of the old head design and manifolds etc, will mean that the more boost advance you run, the law of diminshing returns will mean that peak power will not increase in relation to boost, where as the low end of the rev range where the engine is most efficient, it will just use the air flow and keep increasing torque. This is shown that the peak power revs is moving down the rev range, one of Petes 338lb runs, had only just over 200bhp, but was way down at 4000rpm peak. Pumping losses only affect high rpms, the design of the engine isnt a restriction of low revs, hence the good torque.

The other advantage of the 2.5 lump is the high compression of 8.6:1, it will make a lot of gains torque wise with not much boost, but it limited at a certain level.

And one other thing when you change your turbo keep it smaller if you want it to be quick round the circuit - you canna change the law of physics Jim so bigger means laggier - or bite the bullet (have they given you guns yet?) and go for a quality roller bearing jobbie to run higher a boost on a smaller unit. My T38 was substantially laggier than standard - although obviously I've never had the chance to drive it properly set up yet!

We can't go smaller. His current turbo is maxed out at 260, way out of efficiency so half its work is turned into heat..Im keeping the 48 exhaust housing which is still good for under 330bhp, though its never going to see over 300 really due the the exhaust/manifold setup, so he will have the same spool characteristics as he has currently, keep the same torque output around 3500, but with a bit more compressor lag. The compressor option will cope with around 40lb/min, which is around 380bhp rule of thumb..

I must admit I've been quite shocked at the torque figures your engine has been making - the power has been a bit more than I would have anticipated but the torque figure is massively more.

thats what i thought but like ive been told god knows how many times rolling road figures dont mean a thing,just take it on a drag strip just to see what it can do

I'm a bit concerned about the transmission now though. I reckon 350 ft/lbs is going to be the realistic limit for my A610 clutch and the UN1 'box. I don't think a standard GTA clutch is going to hold that sort of torque for long at all.

I did quite a bit of research on the gearboxes before having mine built.

5th is the weakest link on the GTA turbos and Esprits. The popular upgrade is to drop 5th to the same ratio as an Atmo and DeLorean. The next weakest link is the input coupler and there's a DeLorean vendor in the US who's made some sooopa doopa strong couplers for the guys out there who keps breaking them with their small block chevvy conversions. The clutch they've been using is a centreforce kit which turned out to be a re-badged Valeo pack. The next weakest point is the driveshaft ouputs, but you have to get to over 450hp to start worrying about them. 300hp is the limit beyond which you need to start worrying about 5th, 350 for the input coupler.

If anyone needs gearbox work, give us a shout, we've got enough donor boxes to create anything you desire. I've had a DeLorean box built from a donor Renault 30 (3.89:1 final), final drive flipped, and strengthened input coupler for my turbo engine (when I get around to it!).

Rememer also that you guys have smaller back wheels than the DeLorean so the chances are that you can put more through them before experiencing probs.

As 5th is the obvious weak part, the easiest solution would be to give the ECU an input to tell it it's in 5th, then limit the boost - although this will drop the top speed fractionally

I must admit I've been quite shocked at the torque figures your engine has been making - the power has been a bit more than I would have anticipated but the torque figure is massively more.

thats what i thought but like ive been told god knows how many times rolling road figures dont mean a thing,just take it on a drag strip just to see what it can do

Torque don't mean diddly on the drag strip...

thats what i thought but like ive been told god knows how many times rolling road figures dont mean a thing,)

Ah, but the good thing with Peters, is he has used the same RR for the standard ECU and no chargecooler runs, then with the CC fitted, and then with the new ECU, so you can see the gains are genuine, and its not like his car over read power or torque wise on the standard setup..