PeterG and the 21 Turbo boys...

The R21 is undoubtedly the bargain of the decade if youre after cheap performance....renault are good at that...the 5GT was a very quick car for the money as is the R21. I think the difference is the GTA was built to do so much more than it was originally given whereas the R21 was already dealt a fairly good hand. If you want ultimate performance, the looks to go with it and a half decent badge then you need a GTA. If you check out the BARC Harewood site you'll see that one of the cars I beat at this years Saturday September Harewood hillclimb was a 21 turbo....by over 2 1/2 seconds and he only competed at Harewood all year (I went once) and his car was far from standard...and I made more than a little bit of a mess of both of my competetive runs (armco is very scary when your pride and joy is only seconds away from hitting it at 40mph! ). Shouldve clocked a sub 70sec. run.........roll on next year!!!

Alpineandy...all I can say is that the T2 wasnt working properly or was being driven by a donkey....or Paul Sage is outstanding on a track, because the T2 was a world beating car in the right hands (although in standard trim it was down on power compared to a 21T)

I think your under-estimating the chuckability of a 21T (provided you 'left foot brake' to sort the understeer). Having said that the 5T2 looked standard and the driver clearly wasn't an expert. Maybe he was still learning about the tail wagging
Plus Paul is a v good driver (pots to prove it!).

..except when he spun your A310 at Croix!

[Alpineandy]

[quote="David Gentleman
..except when he spun your A310 at Croix! [/quote]

Did he ?
I know I did (on a few occasions) .
But a seized rear shocker makes things like that happen .

Workmen and their tools!!!!

[Alpineandy]

Workmen and their tools!!!!

people in glass houses.....

I hope you'll remember that during next years 'hills' reports...

Ha ha ha!!! Mistakes are how you learn!!!!!!!!!!

From personal experience I feel far more comfortable pushing a 21T around a circuit than a T2. I have driven 210 bhp versions around a track back to back a few years ago and was much quicker in the 21. Yes it does understeer but the T2 is harder to control, has appalling turbo lag, a worse driving position and a less cooperative gearbox. In the hands of a really good driver maybe it would have been quicker but it didn't inspire confidence near the limit for my money. Remember the world beating car had over 300bhp and radically different suspension settings. I can also vouch that Paul Sage is very quick driver around a circuit.

to put things in to perspective i have a 21t quadra with a 2.5v6 turbo engine in it,my freind has a 2 wheel drive 21t with a 2l turbo engine,
we both run the same boost of 1 bar and both have head work,exhaust and larger intercoolers,at 80mph on the motorway in 5th gear we both accelerated with 1 passenger in the car and my car was alot quicker!
I thought i would post this to put a twist on the conversation! hope i havent offended anyone!

I think thats exactly how I would have called it. Remember if your both running a bar thats a 3psi increase on the GTA but only a 1 psi increase on the 21 so youv'e probably got at least 40 bhp more and more torque than he has. I imagine your V6 must weigh in at @ 1410 kgs i.e. a couple of hundred more than a 2 wd car but the extra power is enough to more than offset the difference.

A quadra turbo with a V6???? Sounds like a strange beast indeed!!!! Is the V6 a straight fit into the 21?

And conversely Renault built a 4WD GTA as well, just the one I think, so if it all goes into a 21T then it can also go into the GTA!!

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34185&item=2291921609&rd=1

The V6 is I believe a reasonably straightforward job to fit in a 21 although everything like the intercoolers, ecu etc would be mounted in different locations. As for making a 4 wd GTA its not going to be easy at all. Although Renault did toy with making the A610 4wd. Yes the Quadra box would bolt up but literally every other drivetrain component would have to be especially made. No transmission tunnel, different prop, how do you turn the front wheels - the Quadra rear end won't steer so you can't use that. Why would you need the 4 wd anyway GTA's have mega traction.

Why would you need the 4 wd anyway GTA's have mega traction?

Have you tried driving a GTA in the snow or ice? Even in the wet they're a handful!!

No I've never driven my GTA in icy conditions - and have no wish to! Any rear engined powerful car is a handful in those conditions but its not the lack of traction thats causing the problem, its the lack of weight over the front wheels and the poor weight distribution in general. Having 4wd doesn't make make the tyres have more lateral grip it just means the driven wheels have less power to transmit.