Chargecooler kits

You will have to get the CC inlet/outlet pointing vertical as Simon says .

heh, dont bring me into your fights!!!!!!!!!!

Sorted at last Two bleed valves fitted, one at the rad and one near the CC, i made well hard work of that one
Thanks for the advice, Next stop is the dyno

Just over 200 BHP now

Just one balls up from me was the alloy tank i got fabricated Im going to run a methanol mix and alloy & methanol dont mix so ill have to get a stainless one made up, ill be collecting it today but its looking like a 30+ bhp increase from its last dyno run, which is OK i suppose, but not good with the £'s to extract those 30 horses

Don't add methanol, run pure water, and the smallest amount of antifreeze you can get away with.

:evil: Still strugling Just wondering if the plumbing on the hoses sounds right

From the pump out - straight up to the exp tank (Which is higher then the rad and cc) out of the exp tank to the bottom of the rad, rad out top with the hose to the cc then the cc back to the pump

just had a couple of hrs trying to sort it with no luck, it seems to be getting a lot of air in the cc to pump hose

The header tank should be between the rad and the CC. If any air is going to be trapped, its between these two items. And it helps if the tank is near the CC, seeing as this is the most critical part for air locks.

Also, make sure you are pumping COLD water from the rad into the throttle body side of the CC.

On my setup,
I had the pump pressure side plumbed straight into rad followed by charge cooler. Then into header tank back to pump. No problems bleeding. But as DG mentioned cold in, should be furthest away from turbo.
Against airflow.

On my setup,
I had the pump pressure side plumbed straight into rad followed by charge cooler. Then into header tank back to pump. No problems bleeding. But as DG mentioned cold in furthest away from turbo.
Against airflow.

That will work, but is not best because you actually have a header tank full of hot water instead of cold. I think Steve has it between the pump and rad as I can make out..

That will work, but is not best because you actually have a header tank full of hot water instead of cold. I think Steve has it between the pump and rad as I can make out..

Extra surface area for cooling the water

I see your point about the air getting caught in the tank, but IMO the pump should always draw directly from the reservoir and pressurise both active components (rad and CC in that order) otherwise you're relying on gravity and/or the positive pressure sealed by the reservoir cap to circulate the coolant.

Why plumb up the CC so the coolest part is the "last" bit in terms of air flow? surely you want the hottest air to encounter the coolest part of the heat exchanger to provide the greatest temp gradient and the fastest cooling effect...

(then again, I reckon most of this discussion is fairly moot - you could probably plumb it together inside out and upside down and the measurable differences will be minimal - it'll still work bloody well.)

All IMO of course...

That will work, but is not best because you actually have a header tank full of hot water instead of cold. I think Steve has it between the pump and rad as I can make out..

Extra surface area for cooling the water

I see your point about the air getting caught in the tank, but IMO the pump should always draw directly from the reservoir and pressurise both active components (rad and CC in that order) otherwise you're relying on gravity and/or the positive pressure sealed by the reservoir cap to circulate the coolant.

Please don't give advice if your not sure, it only confuses people.

The header tank has to be in the cool side, simply for the fact that it is a reservoir for extra cooling capacity. If we had an ideal setup, we would have a much larger tank, for increased capacity, but what point would a large tank be if it was full of hot water. Likewise, for drag use, we would fill said tank with ice/dry ice. Its going to melt pretty damn quick if its surrounded by hot water.

As for where the tank should be - seeing as air locks in the CC are THE biggest problem (if there is air in there, then it has NO cooling ability), thus so much more critical than air trapped in the rad or other pipework, you therefore want the header tank/bleed point at the highest point, and directly BEFORE the chargecooler, so no air enters the core.

Why plumb up the CC so the coolest part is the "last" bit in terms of air flow? surely you want the hottest air to encounter the coolest part of the heat exchanger to provide the greatest temp gradient and the fastest cooling effect...

As for water direction, having cold water pumped into the 'cold' end is the most efficient, and it called countercurrent flow. Basically, if we pumped cold water in the hot end, we would have hot water coming out of the 'cooler' end of the CC, thus maximum effiency can be no lower than 50% - end of the day, it can't be colder than the temperature of the water......In a countercurrent design, it is possible to get near 100% efficiency.

(then again, I reckon most of this discussion is fairly moot - you could probably plumb it together inside out and upside down and the measurable differences will be minimal - it'll still work bloody well.)

Nope, it is actually uber-critical. These differences do work, you either get a perfect system, or one that doesnt work at all. Dave tried both concurrent and countercurrent flow types on his car and it did have a noticeable difference. Hence why people who follow the instructions get around 10-15 degrees above ambient, and those who don't get high charge temps and problems bleeding

Do you need a header tank in the GTA install ? Mr T does without doesn't he ?

Water expansion in my CC system is minimal.
I do not use a header tank and the CC system work brilliantly, so long as you expell ALL air when priming it.
As you know Lee, I just have a Tee-piece for filling, and bleeding. Otherwise it is a closed circuit system. It will never reach hot like the engine cooling, unless you have created a big problem in the first place, like poor bleeding or a leak.

When the system is running, and the CC in/out lets are horizontal, any small air bubbles WILL get trapped in the top of the CC. If you have not bleed the system properly (they will stay they and they could create a reasonable volume together) the hot air from the turbo could even turn them to steam (which expands a lot) and then you'll have some expansion problems.

My system was last filled and bleed in March. It has done over 2,000 miles and at least 8 sprint and hillclimb events since. I had it apart this weekend and there was 1 bubble the size of a pea, about a tenth of a cc, which is nothing in a 12 litre system.

The CC is a fabulous pice of kit and does a great job.
I have thought about a swirl pot to seperate the air out, but as none seems to collect, I don'y see the need.

As for "which end should the cold water be at for the CC", I see it in very simple terms.

Lets assume the water temperature rises from "cold" to "warm". Now ask yourself which way round you would plumb the hoses to reduce the air temp to the lowest temp? Do you want your hot air reduced towards 'warm' or towards 'cold'? Obviously you would have the cold water at the exit of the CC, because this is the minimum temp that the inducted air temp could/will be able to be theoryetically reduced to, it is the only way to approach maximum chargecooling efficiency.

"Simple eh?".

Think its me confusing everyone I was meaning Methanol for the water injection, With the water injection its leaning the afr's into the low 13's

The charge cooler if fine now, Motorscope reckon the charge temps are not a issue now with the CC together with the twin spal fans on the intercooler,

They spoke to Richard Lamb at ERL (aquamist) and he reckons up-to 50/50 water and Methanol will be good, its just the alloy tank prob i ended up going for the direct port injection (4 jets) using there MF2 conroller.

Ill try and get the graph posted this week if i can get them to email it over, Spending that much money on cars i cant afford a new scanner

:, Spending that much money on cars i cant afford a new scanner

That isnt joking

Do you need a header tank in the GTA install ? Mr T does without doesn't he ?

Its just 'self bleeding' rather than having to do it on purpose.