Adaptronic ECU Piece of P1ss

But I like to know why What happens if my signal is enough then ?
I always get stuff like this If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all ..............Da-dur-da-da-dum ...........

Ok Martin, if its not the wiring/sensor, what else can it be, Seeing as identical cars are working fine?

How would a 'modified' flywheel make any difference?. That is like saying Renault\Renix didnt know what they were doing when they implemented this system over a range of 10 years on all of their vehicles...
.

MY point is that with the flywheel modifed to a standard pattern - 66 teeth, three missing, each relative to TDC by an obvious amount THAT'S SPECIFIED IN THE SOFTWARE, it works FINE (admittedly with a handmade brand new loom too). We scoped up the o/p of the TDC sensor (to work out polarity) and I don't believe a word of the std o/p being "weak".

If the sensor o/p was "weak" you'd see the trigger switch in the ECU data readout dropping out as the car is running - because the ecu is not "seeing" the expected pattern. I can categorically state that on Lee's engine, it DOES NOT because I watched it like a hawk as Lee did a power run.

Now, how about my chargecooler core and injectors paid for over 2 months ago?

You still havent answered the question, if its not the sensor/cable/signal, then what...

Don't say anymore, without answering that question... Its not the 'trigger pattern' as its known to work fine on all the other cars...so what, Martin, is it.?

And for the CC core and injectors, your in the queue.

If the sensor o/p was "weak" you'd see the trigger switch in the ECU data readout dropping out as the car is running -

Nope..

At the moment, we have 20 teeth, and a fat tooth and a gap, times 3. You could make that signal weak enough, you could almost make an ecu never see the small 20 teeth, and just think there are only 3 teeth on that flywheel (the big tooth and a gap) positioned 120 degrees apart.

The triggering doesnt have to 'drop out'. Just to lose count of the teeth it is seeing, and from that point on, fire at a different cranking angle.

Er, no. The missing tooth is a "reset" so regardless of the teeth it's counting, it'll reset and start again on the first tooth after the missng one(s). If it hasn't counted the specified number of teeth by the time it sees the "reset", it'll flag this as a mis-read event.

If it's reading only 3 teeth per rev and with the given config of 20 teeth per period I'd say the engine probably wouldn't run at all..... in fact the ECU would never switch out of "cranking" mode as it'll "see" the engine turning verrrrry sloooooowwwllly

Er, no. The missing tooth is a "reset" so regardless of the teeth it's counting, it'll reset and start again on the first tooth after the missng one(s). If it hasn't counted the specified number of teeth by the time it sees the "reset", it'll flag this as a mis-read event.

If it's reading only 3 teeth per rev and with the given config of 20 teeth per period I'd say the engine probably wouldn't run at all..... in fact the ECU would never switch out of "cranking" mode as it'll "see" the engine turning verrrrry sloooooowwwllly

Martin, Its an example.... I didnt say you would run it in the '3 teeth' scenario with the 20 tooth settings. Lol, why would you do that? Basically though, by adjusting signal, you can make the ecu see many different things...

The point is with fluctuating signal levels, the ecu can see misleading angles from time to time...ie, less than is actually on the flywheel. It will then fire incorrectly.

Lee has changed his sensor for a newer one, and that 'time to time' has become less...

So without any doubt, it is 100% sensor/cable related.

I'm picking up a new sensor today so I'll plonk it on and wire it fresh tothe ecu ,see if it cures it completely .....................If not I reckon I need a new ECU
I can get it scoped on Friday .

[Alpineandy]

......Da-dur-da-da-dum ...........

Last of the summer wine, Eh compo?

okay well this will fairly obviously be put to rest once Lee tries a new sensor. BTW Lee, I actually have one in its wrapper if your lot take a while.

The signal doesn't drop out when the engine is running, what happens is that it runs as if someone has wiped 50% off the entire ignition table. Not misfiring, backfiring, knocking or belching smoke, but simply very reluctant to rev and no power.

Stop, restart and it works fine. That's not indicative of an intermittent fault.

But if I'm wrong, Dave, I'll buy you a pint. In the meantime, please send off the rest of my order...

Sensor 'should' be in Weds now ..............Them there Renault say it's GTA and or Espace specific ................Z7U or 7X
Popped into the Leics stealers as I was in town and they say none in stock UK ,Derby say Weds ................I thought it was used on loads of Rens ..................

Sensor 'should' be in Weds now ..............Them there Renault say it's GTA and or Espace specific ................Z7U or 7X
Popped into the Leics stealers as I was in town and they say none in stock UK ,Derby say Weds ................I thought it was used on loads of Rens ..................

Well this is the part number for a 25T - 7700739794

Which is the same number for a 25 V6 2.9 Z7W, also Espace V6 Z7W

No reason for the GTA one to be different, unless it has physical differences such as heat sheilding on the cable which warrants it being a different p/n. A610 has the same sensor.

Ive ran 25 V6 Non turbo ECU's on GTA's and it runs fine, likewise 25T ecus, and there is no difference tween the 25-T and GTA-T anyway...

If there is a difference it might be in the length of cable, but one of my "spares" came off an auto safrane and is identical to all the 25t ones I've ever seen.

Safrane V6 and R25 crank sensors are the same part.

Whats interesting is the official GTA one is a 60xxxxx part number and older in design. Lee has measured the pick up on the R25 one and it is slightly longer and this sensor has been used right up to 1997, hence the Safrane, Laguna etc...., whereas the GTA one was designed back in 1985. Maybe the 25 one is a revised, improved part...

I've discovered a couple of Alpine/Renault discrepancies. For eg, the 25t intake manifold is not available from Renault, but IS avialable from Alpine. The reverse light switch is CHEAPER with a 60 part no on the bag.

I've discovered a couple of Alpine/Renault discrepancies. For eg, the 25t intake manifold is not available from Renault, but IS avialable from Alpine. The reverse light switch is CHEAPER with a 60 part no on the bag.

The two manifolds listed are not the same. The one for the GTA is a 60xxxxx number and is for the twin regulator cars, whereas all the 25's 77xxxxx (even the 205bhp) still ran a single reg. The casting is slightly different for mounting these regulators and a little difference at the back where it mounts the different vacuum pipe brackets on the Lemans model.