A610 TPS ( THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR ) READING PLEASE

[phildini]

Have you considered this is because the 21 ones arent knackered/causing resistance hence the different values.

You can borrow my diagnostic unit if you like. How do you know that your 0.50v figure is even correct (I know this is what you are trying to do) but someone could come back with 2v as a reading....how do you know that is correct too? It could be 5v....

I have done a lot of home work into this because I was getting told that the only way it can be set right was by using the xr25 unit. As I done further investigation into TPS, and wanting to find out if I could set it with just a simple multimeter ( as I don’t have access to a diagnostic machine ), I then discovered that they are all set at rest within a certain voltage, all brands may vary but they seem to range between 0.10v up to 1.0v. It is extremely important that you get this right otherwise it will effect fuel consumption and performance. The reason I wanted three readings or more, was because I wanted to find out the set Voltage for the A610 as no MR book state it. My 21 Quadra at rest is 0.27v, which made my 610 run very rich!

Most home mechanic when they replace a TPS they think by positioning it where the old one was would do the job, but I am afraid it does not! The 610 it's not very forgiving where as a R19/clio 16v the band is a lot wider and a lot more forgiving.

It’s only a small piece of plastic, but it does so much and can cause so many issues.

Mr Gentleman do you have a number I can reach you on so we can arrange diagnostic tool hire

Phildini,

I am interested in your comments relating to the symptoms of a faulty TPS?

I am currently having problems getting my GTA turbo started and I noticed that you list one of the symptoms of a faulty TPS as being difficult to start?
You also mention that backfiring can be a symptom?

I was having the occasional back fire, especially when throttling hard before I got to this situation where I am not even able to start the car at all.
I was also getting a diagnostic flasf when revving hard and changeing gear, almost as after lifting off the throttle a malfunction signal was being generated?

It is something that I am currently working through to try and isolate the fault/s, but would appreciate any information that you may have relating to the TPS which may help me during any problem solving.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff

[phildini]

Because the rest of the 610 members gave me so much help regarding this issue, maybe I should share my findings with you..........


NIL, NOTHING, ZERO!!!

I did think it was a bit of " help me to help you" but..........


Actually the GTA TPS is different from the 610. 610 it's a potentiometer, they might have the same symptoms I am not sure. You might get lucky with the GTA brigade and they might help you out more. Good luck!

Because the rest of the 610 members gave me so much help regarding this issue, maybe I should share my findings with you..........


NIL, NOTHING, ZERO!!!

I did think it was a bit of " help me to help you" but..........


Actually the GTA TPS is different from the 610. 610 it's a potentiometer, they might have the same symptoms I am not sure. You might get lucky with the GTA brigade and they might help you out more. Good luck!

I'd balme Mr Dell he owns the major share in 610's

Moody Mediterranean 610 Prima Donna ....

I gave you all the info that JohnC kindly supplied .................

[BIG_MVS]

Mines still in doc so I couldn't help ya

Mr Dell has 2 now so give him some grief!

Pop round with a meter and DIY

[stephendell]

I'd balme Mr Dell he owns the major share in 610's

Not only did I supply Mr Dini with a new throttle pot but he has been round and taken readings from both of my cars.

Only thing is it didn't help much as both were different.

Red was 0.09 at rest 0.09 idle.

Yellow was 0.00 at rest 0.01 idle.

Red has developed a strage habit of randomly revving itself so suggest yellow figures may be more reliable!!

[mettersl]

Mr Dini, I think you besmirch (good word for a Saturday) the 610 owners, I know of at least one person who did give you readings and I was hoping to get the range of others as a return......you did thank me too.....

pm with the values please...

Cheers
lee

[stephendell]

Think yours was the same as my red one.

Red was 0.09 at rest 0.09 idle.

Yellow was 0.00 at rest 0.01 idle.

I have refrained from getting involved in this discussion as I don`t have a 610, and am not very up to speed with injected engines......However.... having followed the thread, I have a few observations as to what might be going on.
Firstly, the readings shown above.....what reference is being used.. ie, what was the black meter lead connected to.... further are we talking volts or ohms?
Recently I did have the opportunity of having a look at a faulty one which sadly I was not able to do anything with apart from removing the potting to get a look at the connections.....pic follows.
The second one, I offered to do a repair on cracked and broken insulation of the leads, and while I had it over here, I took the opportunity to take some readings What I found was that the 610 TPS is a potentiometer as opposed to a switch, which some members thought it might be. But initially I found the readings quite weird to the extent I had to ask if it was a known good one. However after a bit of thinking I came to the following conclusions.
The track of the potentiometer is between the Green and Yellow wires and the resistance between the two is around 4.3k ohms.
The wiper is the Red wire.
Now this is where it gets tricky. At rest, the resistance between the Red and Yellow is around 1.9k, and between Red and Green.... 6.3k.
At full travel between Red and Yellow it is around 6.3k, and between Red and Green.... 1.9k. Readings have been rounded off to one place of decimal. From that it does appear that the actual part of the pot being used for throttle position is only a 500 ohm section in the middle of the track. Remember only a 90` rotation of the spindle is used for the throttle out of around 320` of a normal pot.
According to the manual, none of the wires go directly to earth, all three go directly to the ECU,
If it were me trying to get a TPS adjustment by comparison with another 610, I would be taking voltage readings, ign on, at rest between Red and Yellow, That is assuming the spring return is not loaded at rest, ie:- the TPS is at rest when the throttle is also at rest......Check. Clearly when adjusted correctly there will be a certain rotation against the spring. I seem to be digging myself a hole at the moment but I hope you understand the point, please come back if I have not explained it properly.
Now the manual is very clear on one point......the rest position of the TPS must be achieved by pressing and releasing the throttle pedal and not manually at the TPS, ie:- it must find its natural rest position as if being driven.
Hope this is of interest and I hope it also helps

Pics follow for info,







John

Actually it's quite easy. If you have the appropriate MR manual you can check, I don't have it in front of me, and will have to verify the exact range later for the A610, but here's how:

Look up the allowed range in the X25 fault / setup tables (for the reader) for the A610, and you will see that for idle it will likely be some thing like 7 to 15, and at WOT it should be usually >235. Idle position is nearly always centred on 10.

Now 255 = 5V, hence (10/255) x 5 = 0.19Vdc, so 0.15 to 0.18Vdc should be ok.

Also check you are getting >4.5Vdc at WOT

Anyway, I have the appropriate manual for the A610 and will look up the exact allowed X25 range, but nearly always centred on 10.

John is right the pot has a series resistor in the wiper arm, and this is true of all pots used on the later engine, Laguna, 24V etc etc..

There is a high impedance input stage, and hence does see the full voltage swing. The pot, MAP, and all temp sensors are referenced to a pedestal voltage to reduce noise, and not directly reference to ground as John says, so you need to take measurement from the pot reference wire, brown in the loom as below.

If you look back Lee Metters has given you the right answers at the top of the thread...

Red 5.05v, brown 0.013v, blue 0.190v all colours refer to the loom not tps side.
Hope this helps, all measured ignition on, engine stopped, throttle shut.

John would not forgive me if I didn't say put some heat shielding on too if you can.Lee

......... the pot has a series resistor in the wiper arm, and this is true of all pots used on the later engine, Laguna, 24V etc etc..

Martin, Thanks for confirming that.......from the readings there had to be that series resistor but I did not mention it as I did not want to confuse the issue any more than I had done already

I think this is the part of the manual you are talking about.

John.

Thanks John, that's great

Red 5.05v, brown 0.013v, blue 0.190v all colours refer to the loom not tps side.
Lee

Lee, As I have not got a 610 in front of me ..... am I right in assuming the Brown wire, loom side changes to Yellow, TPS side

John