Blinking Indicators !! (not)

Thanks Martin...here you go....

Here are some pictures..

Dave.... thanks for the pic.... I have zoomed in to the above pic, but I can't read the value of the Blue Electrolytic Capicator.... It should read so many Micro Farads, and a working voltage, ie say.... 220mf 40v. The value might be around the other side, but, as a matter of course, I would change it, they only have a 15 year working life before they dry out and in some circuits, cause trouble. I had trouble with my wiper relay recently... opened it up, replaced the two capicators, checked for dry/cracked joints, poped it back in, all working now. Not saying that it is your problem, but would change it as the unit is open, and maybe....
John

Dave..... have you managed to cure the problem with your Flashing Indicators yet...... if not, let us know, as I downloaded the Data Sheet for the chip in the relay and have an easy test you might be interested in checking out.

John

[John Sweet]

I had exactly this problem on my GTA many years ago. I seem to remember being able to connect the relay without its cover and watching it working (or not). The clue is in the 2 relays - why oh why Renault decided to have a circuit for each side is beyond me. If you do this you will find each relay operates each side. You will find the one for the left sticks a bit. I seem to remember cleaning up the relay connector then bending the spring (of the contact) very slightly. After a little trial and error I got it working perfectly.
Don't ask me why when one side sticks, if you use the hazards switch they work perfectly together - must be some part of the circuit that links them.

Dave..... have you managed to cure the problem with your Flashing Indicators yet...... if not, let us know, as I downloaded the Data Sheet for the chip in the relay and have an easy test you might be interested in checking out.

John

Hi john...
Not fixed yet...tried ordering a relay from renault..no joy....no longer available. I did swap the inputs and the fault moved..so it must be the flasherunit..(or one half of it)..oddly the lh flasher still works at 12v..but not at 14.4v with engine running.

I did take a took a quick look at the data sheet for the IC....a while back. That u243b is available on eBay etc.
Interested to hear what you suggest johnC by way of testing ?

(I did write up the list of all components..and considered just replacing all with new..but not sure what actual relay to use)

Based on John Sweet's advice might also try cleaning relay contacts.

I did swap the inputs and the fault moved..so it must be the flasherunit..(or one half of it)..oddly the lh flasher still works at 12v..but not at 14.4v with engine running.

Hi Dave,

I take it whan you say "the two inputs", you are refering to the two 12v outputs to each side set of lamps. If so you have checked out what I was going to suggest by means of checking that the resistive load of each side of lamps were the same.... ie:- pins 4 & 8 to earth. The reason being that the chip is designed to operate on a set load current and should that change (lamp failure) flashing rate would change. It did occure to me that when you said that all the lamps were working, there was a possibility.... just a possibility... that one or more lamps were not drawing the correct current for full brightness due to a poor earth or corrosion in a lamp holder creating a slightly higher resistance in the circuit on one side which was affecting the load resistance for the chip on that side. Now that you have proved the current load for each side are not affecting the chip.... as you say, the fault must be in the unit itself. Apart from changing the Electrolytic Capacitor as a matter of course (do you know its value yet) I would check each component out of circuit. It must be done by disconnecting at least one leg, if not, other parts of the circuit will corrupt your check. It is unlikely the transistor is at fault as one side is working.
The fact that it works at 12v and not at 14v just says to me that it is current related, as when the voltage increases and the load resistance (Lamps) stay the same.... the current increases.

Thanks John (by input I really meant output)....yes my thinking was to swap the lighting circuits to check if resistive load differences between L and R lights were a factor..and indeed it told me it was the flasher unit.

The capacitor was 47uF if I remember (don't have scrawled notes in front of me)..so I guess I'll give the contact of the one relay a clean (tweezers and a slither of wet n dry paper..maybe some contact cleaner) ...

Failing that it is time to get the soldering iron out and start testing/replacing bits...

Only just got time to look further at this...also prompted by a clutch cylinder failure on the avantime...needed to fix the gta for the mrs to drive.

Anyway..after revisiting what john sweet had suggested...(before getting the soldering iron / meter out)...my LHS indicators now flash with the engine running...I had given the relays a squirt of contact cleaner before..but a more thorough clean seemed to do the job. I had avoided doing too much to the relays in the past as it did work of a fashion (but not with the alternator running)

I took the spring off the lh relay and you can then take the relay flappy bit out (taking care not to break the copper braiding).. a slither of 400 grit wet and dry and contact cleaner and a pair of tweezers to hold the paper..seemed to do the job.

I don't know if this will be a permanent fix...but at least I think most parts can be replaced if some other issues arise. Thanks to johnc I think I would be confident to go fault finding and replacing the bits.

If I was doing this again I would leave the relay case attached to the rail..(it was a faff to refix it) and just pop out the internals...(small screwdriver either side of the case)..unplugging the pink dim dip relay and the other unit next to it (internal light timer perhaps) gives more room.

[John Sweet]

Just took my relay to bits over the weekend. Ran a little emery paper over the turn left relay contact, bent the spring a little, put it all back together again and it is now working fine. For how long it stay like this - who knows? (isn't this part of the fun of owning an Alpine).

Special bonus - thought I would see if I could get the front fogs working at the same time but they seem to have started working again of their own accord - fixed without even trying - not sure if I should be happy or deeply concerned (at the random straying of electricity in an area where it could cause a lot of havoc )