More Electrical Gremlins - Le Mans

[stephendell]

Battery trays are all the same to suit 063 or similar. Many have been modified over the years by bending one edge flat or similar.

Never really had any problems using a battery other than an 063 which are currently around £25 from Renault.

Drop si21 a line. He had a very similar problem. Rather than a poor earth turned out to be a very high resistance positive IIRC. Replacing that solved the problem.

Having said all of the above my white Atmo has now developed a flickering battery light, started on its last visit to the ACE...

Never really had any problems using a battery other than an 063 which are currently around £25 from Renault.

Couldn't agree with you more Stephen ....... by fitting bigger capacity batteries, one is only trying to overcome weakness's in the 12v path to the starter, or the Earth return. instead of finding the underlining cause of the problem.
Even with a bigger battery, the faults will still be there and will only get worse.

Just to echo what John and Steve have said, do check those earths and connections Paul as you don't want to be upping the power of the battery and just masking the actual underlying issue. As I said earlier:

I'd check the earth strap though at the battery where it joins to the chassis. It lies in a gulley under the battery and is connected via a bolt (next to a drain hole and where leaves and crud collects).

If you're replacing the battery tray anyway then all of this will be nicely exposed - it needs to be clean as the proverbial whistle to actually create a proper contact. Same goes for the connections at the starter and you should also have an extra earth strap from the engine to a rear turret too - which reminds me that mine went missing when the engine came out before - must address that.

Having said all that, a bigger battery does no harm at all, especially for those cold starts and so on. Probably not so much of an issue down in sunny Jersey eh John?

Having said all that, a bigger battery does no harm at all, especially for those cold starts and so on. Probably not so much of an issue down in sunny Jersey eh John?

You could be right there Darren.

[BIG_MVS]

It's times like these when you are inundated with help and guidance that it pays dividends to be a member of a club

Also on the 12v side, there is connection box (part 362 in your manual) that would be worth disconnecting the cables, (dis battery first of course) cleaning with a brass brush, and reconnecting. This carries the 12v from the battery to the starter, and I think you will find a few other wires taken off it to feed 12v to other parts of the electrical system.
Connection 362 looks like it sits towards the back on the inside of the off side wheel arch ......

Whilst hunting for a pic of the speed sensor connector position for another member who PM'ed me. I found this one posted by, I think, Vince ... (The Saint), and realised that it showed Connection 326, on the far right ...... clearly, this one needs attention. Apart from it requiring a good clean, there should be a cover which clips over the 4 lugs on each corner of the unit.
Just looking at this one, if anyone is having starting problems as posted above, I strongly suggest that attention is paid to this VERY VERY important connection. Any slight corrosion resistance built up here will have a detrimental affect, not only the starting performance, but many other 12v ancillaries in the car.
So thanks for the pic ...... hope you don't mind my reproducing it Vince.

John

[The Saint]

Not at all..... we are all here to help each other.

Yes always give that one close attention .On earlier cars with the multiplug top end engine loom ( turbo) the bat connection/engine lower loom is a lot higher ,sitting mid point up the wheel arch ...retro step if you ask me to move it down so low and also do away with the multiplug ...A610 they go back to multiplug up top

Also on the 12v side, there is connection box (part 362 in your manual) that would be worth disconnecting the cables, (dis battery first of course) cleaning with a brass brush, and reconnecting. This carries the 12v from the battery to the starter, and I think you will find a few other wires taken off it to feed 12v to other parts of the electrical system.
Connection 362 looks like it sits towards the back on the inside of the off side wheel arch ......

Whilst hunting for a pic of the speed sensor connector position for another member who PM'ed me. I found this one posted by, I think, Vince ... (The Saint), and realised that it showed Connection 326, on the far right ...... clearly, this one needs attention. Apart from it requiring a good clean, there should be a cover which clips over the 4 lugs on each corner of the unit.
Just looking at this one, if anyone is having starting problems as posted above, I strongly suggest that attention is paid to this VERY VERY important connection. Any slight corrosion resistance built up here will have a detrimental affect, not only the starting performance, but many other 12v ancillaries in the car.
So thanks for the pic ...... hope you don't mind my reproducing it Vince.

John

Thanks John,

Checked the connections you showed in the picture earlier today - clean as a whistle, in fact they had been greased over and look like new underneath the grease, so I don't think I have any problems there.

On the starting front, I don't routinely have any starting problems at all with the Le Mans - just the couple of occasions (different batteries) when the engine has been quite warm like when I was stuck in traffic recently. I've checked the earth point under the battery and it was totally clean - as I expected as I replaced the bolt about 3 years ago and cleaned the contact surfaces then.

I take the point about perhaps not needing a larger battery, but I've fitted one anyway and it does spin the starter more willingly than my last battery!

I'm not sure what else to check regarding the hot start sluggishness - could heat in the engine bay affect the starter motor itself (metal expansion etc). I've heard of this before and my MOT man suggested that as a cause when the engine barely started at the end of an MOT test.

Anyway, thanks once again for all your excellent advice - don't know what we'd do without you

Paul

I'm not sure what else to check regarding the hot start sluggishness - could heat in the engine bay affect the starter motor itself (metal expansion etc). I've heard of this before and my MOT man suggested that as a cause when the engine barely started at the end of an MOT test.

I really would not think so, I certainly have never heard of that happening.
Having reread this thread to make sure I have not missed something, ...... you have changed the starter ...... you have checked all the connections, 12v ones and Earth return ones, (I hope you have checked the earth strap from chassis to gearbox ?) ...... I think you must now see if the fault has been corrected with the installation of the new battery once you have replaced your oil pressure sensor.
Just one little point, just because a battery has been charged .... depending on age and general condition of the battery, do not think that it must be good with plenty of power available .... that is not always the case.
One other little point ...... the longer a battery takes to charge, the better the battery is. ...... If it charges up quickly, the chances are that there is little capacity available.
A quick analogy ..... a dripping tap will fill a cup quickly, but will take much longer to fill a bucket.

John

It's times like these when you are inundated with help and guidance that it pays dividends to be a member of a club

Membership updated Martin - not deliberate.......

Paul

Battery trays are all the same to suit 063 or similar. Many have been modified over the years by bending one edge flat or similar.

Never really had any problems using a battery other than an 063 which are currently around £25 from Renault.

Drop si21 a line. He had a very similar problem. Rather than a poor earth turned out to be a very high resistance positive IIRC. Replacing that solved the problem.

Having said all of the above my white Atmo has now developed a flickering battery light, started on its last visit to the ACE...

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the advice. By the way, I have just renewed my subscription and for about an hour or so the system allowed me access to everything, and updated my status - but that has now reverted and it looks like the system thinks that I haven't paid.. Seems like a system/software glitch somewhere - is there something else I should have done? I received 4 automated emails telling me to follow a non-existent link to reactivate my account so I am stuck now - can you help?

Paul

It's times like these when you are inundated with help and guidance that it pays dividends to be a member of a club

Membership updated Martin - not deliberate.......

Paul

Well everything seemed to update for an hour or so after I renewed my subscription, but reverted to 'non-member' status thereafter....

Don't know what's going on here - think I preferred the old website