First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginning?

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First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginning?

Postby gchristofi » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:33 pm

Thursday 11th June was an exciting day. Finally, I was off to collect the GTA turbo from the local garage as she had earned her MoT with only minor work following on from the engine work and I had set aside the whole afternoon and evening for test driving. The plan for this car was ambitious from the start but I never expected to have the car road ready with MoT after only 8 weeks. Things were looking positive.

I wanted to get as many GTA miles under my belt as quickly as possible. First stop, the local post office to reward her with 6 months road tax. I managed to go "the long way round" via 50 miles of back roads with a mixture of smooth and rough tarmac, straights and corners of all speeds and directions. Considering she appears to be on original suspension, the road manners are pretty impressive. There's the obligatory creaking of old bushes and what feels like a little bit too much play in the engine / gearbox mounts but in general the steering is fantastically communicative. If you take a little too much speed into a corner, there are signs of under steer but these subside if you ease off a little. Even on the relatively skinny 225 section rear tyres, traction at the rear seems unbreakable in the dry. I suspect, slow in, fast out is the way forward, especially if it's damp.

At first, performance feels a little benign. Trundling along with revs under 3500 and power the engine brings to mind a middle of the road family saloon, not much drama and quiet to boot. Everything changes once the boost arrives though, with the obligatory lag of a single turbo, the shove makes itself felt and things begin to get interesting. The car boosts well, with the in dash gauge heading just to the left of the black segment. Keeping the engine on boost and it's easy to reach 3 figure speeds (I would imagine). There's a few niggles to iron out on the engine and management. Tickling the turbo tends to invoke the orange filament warning and the service lights to illuminate temporarily without apparent reason as it seems to detract little from performance. I did notice that the boost wouldn't always achieve the same maximum on the in dash gauge so plan to fit a boost gauge in the near future before any fettling. The speedo is now working and almost exactly agrees with the speed shown by my sat nav. It can be a little slow and lazy to register in the first 20 mph though so something somewhere still needs a clean.

Considering the system remains untouched, still using the old fluid, pads and discs after 4 years in a field, the brakes make a good account of themselves too. Lack of mass is always a good thing for performance and braking, shame I'm not helping with the addition in the driver's seat! I've already bought, but yet to fit some braided hoses and track day pads and fluid ... jumping the gun a little on my decision of what to do with this car! The clutch and gear change also feel smooth and accurate. although once or twice, 5th gear did seem to pop out all on its own.

I can't help drawing parallels with the other cars I'm used to driving for fun. The GTA turbo begins to lighten at the front as speed builds, the feeling is somewhat like being in a speedboat and not dissimilar to the other rear engine car in my garage. You never forget where the engine is, for better or worse. This is not so in the current BMW e30 track car, but is perhaps one of the reasons I feel I've reached the end of the line with it. Front engine, rear wheel drive feels a little too easy to master, especially with modest BHP. My 964 on the other hand, through 20 years of ownership, always has a little surprise left if I ever dare to think I've mastered things! I expect, at full whack, on track, the GTA will require similar respect and be just as rewarding!

So I continued my back road investigations, gradually upping the ante on the engine, brakes and steering, moving closer to the decision on whether this would be a good track weapon. I always intended to do 100 miles of hard testing before hitting the track, it's just common sense as there's no point finding the car isn't up to it whilst on the day, potentially ruining the track for others and being stranded miles from home. In terms of point to point performance, the GTA turbo feels smack bang in the middle of the 964 C2 and the e30 325 track car. Before spending any hard earned on track oriented upgrades, the mission was to get the GTA to Brands Hatch and Snetterton 300 and match my e30 times of 1m 03secs and 2m 36secs respectively. By the the end of testing was near, I was almost certain the GTA turbo, in standard, aged condition would achieve this. Decision made then..... and as the evening was drawing in, just enough time for a few more miles to get me back home to rest after a tiring but fun afternoon.

On the last leg now and my head was full of bucket seats, BHP gains, roll hoops and racing decals. Throughout the afternoon, I had been monitoring oil pressure and coolant temperature as if by paranoid religion, and everything had been spot on. Coolant gradually worked up to 90C from cold when on the move. If stopped in traffic the temperature nudged above 90 until the front fan would kick in and bring things back to normal. Cruising at any speed above 20mph would also noticeably lower the coolant temperature. Excellent, all looks good, time to head back and book the track day.... ....... ......except of course, now, my guard was lowered.

Half a mile from home, a red coolant warning light appears on the dash. Sh*t, its above 130C!....... Sh*t, how long ago did I last check the temperature? ......... Sh*t, how quickly has it overheated? Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t. Nearly home, I'll just cruise it back to the driveway, yes, nearly there, 50m to go and then poooooffffff, a loud rush of steam from the middle of the car. I roll onto the driveway and jump out of the car, fire extinguisher in hand and watch as the car empties the contents of its rusty coolant system onto my block paving! SH*T!!

When things calm down, I get back in the car and notice that, somewhat eerily, the trip counter that I zeroed at the beginning of the test reads exactly 100.0 miles! I think le GTA gods are having a little laugh at my expense..... literally! :down

So, the car has failed "testing" at the last hurdle but my heart already appears to have made a rash decision to keep her and sympathetically create a track day car........ I had a chance to get under her today and it seems the weak link in the coolant system was unfortunately the steel pipes that run through the central tunnel. Better to discover this now than later. I see the pipes are available from simon-auto.de but it must be and engine out job right? Not sure this is within my skill set on the driveway so time to consider options. If I do chicken out and use a friendly specialist, I'm a bit worried about the inevitable "whilst you're in there" slippery slope.

As to the root cause of the overheat, I have to be optimistic about the head gaskets. I clearly didn't bleed the system correctly and there was still plenty of sludge in there to cause the problem. I wish I knew how quickly the overheat came on, but I just wasn't paying enough attention by that stage.

This was never going to be a short story, I hope I'm making the right decision. Tell me I'm doing the right thing? :wave

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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby MFaulks » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:24 am

.
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby stephendell » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:39 am

I've had a few coolant explosions of that type and the Headgaskets have survived to live another day. Failed rad fans and blocked radiator being the cause. You may have got away with it.

Refill the system with water, run it up and look carefully to identify the source of the leak if not already glaringly obvious.
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby gchristofi » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:22 am

MFaulks wrote:.
Smile, it's the journey that counts, get in there and get it sorted, you will be amply rewarded :-) as your footer says, you can't be half pregnant, so join the fun, man up, and go for it! :-) if you wanted the other side of the coin you are asking the wrong forum :-)

Smiles,
Martin

Cheers Martin, it's very tempting to get stuck in as I know the rewards will be great..... the impatient side of me has an eye on how long it's taken some folk, way more experienced, to complete this type of thing. Work and family commitments will doubtless slow me further. Going to give it a week to decide weather to man up or pay up! :MoreSarc

stephendell wrote:I've had a few coolant explosions of that type and the Headgaskets have survived to live another day. Failed rad fans and blocked radiator being the cause. You may have got away with it.

Refill the system with water, run it up and look carefully to identify the source of the leak if not already glaringly obvious.


Thanks Stephen, that's reassuring. The engine does start and run well (short tests obviously) without signs of smoke or steam so have to be optimistic. Can't refill the system as it just pours out underneath. At first I thought I'd dodged a bullet and a hose had come off the steel pipes at the front but unfortunately, the leak comes out of the tunnel as the break is somewhere inside, which has to mean the steel pipes have corroded through, right?
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby JohnC » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:33 am

gchristofi wrote: At first I thought I'd dodged a bullet and a hose had come off the steel pipes at the front but unfortunately, the leak comes out of the tunnel as the break is somewhere inside, which has to mean the steel pipes have corroded through, right?

Before you start ripping the engine out to change the steel pipes ...... check that it is not one of your heater hoses. ....... just a thought. ;)
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby gchristofi » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:36 am

JohnC wrote:
gchristofi wrote: At first I thought I'd dodged a bullet and a hose had come off the steel pipes at the front but unfortunately, the leak comes out of the tunnel as the break is somewhere inside, which has to mean the steel pipes have corroded through, right?

Before you start ripping the engine out to change the steel pipes ...... check that it is not one of your heater hoses. ....... just a thought. ;)


You mean the other smaller diameter pipe that runs up the tunnel or is there something else in there? Is it possible to perform bypass surgery if its a heater hose / pipe?
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby JohnC » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:41 am

gchristofi wrote:You mean the other smaller diameter pipe that runs up the tunnel or is there something else in there? Is it possible to perform bypass surgery if its a heater hose / pipe?

Hang on .... I am trying to find you a pic showing all the pipe work for cooling and heater .... I think I have one on Photobucket, other wise I will get one off the parts book :up .... be patient with me. ;)

Some time later. :)

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The two heater hoses are:- 061156 ..... and 061157 ....... also check hose 061159 in case that has let go..
And yes, if it is a heater hose, you can bypass the heater by attaching a piece of hose from where the heater hose joins the rad hose to the smaller steel pipe 061158.
But remember ..... I only suggest you check these hoses before doing anything else ....... it still could well be the large steel pipes but lets hope not. (fingers crossed smilie)
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby clee » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:49 pm

Unusual for the steel pipes to rot inside the tunnel area .They normally go where they stick out at the front .Yes,check the heater hoses as one of them comes through the tunnel so could be it's gone there .The one that connects to small steel pipe is outside the tunnel so can't see that one being the cause .
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby gchristofi » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:36 pm

JohnC wrote:
The two heater hoses are:- 061156 ..... and 061157 ....... also check hose 061159 in case that has let go..
And yes, if it is a heater hose, you can bypass the heater by attaching a piece of hose from where the heater hose joins the rad hose to the smaller steel pipe 061158.
But remember ..... I only suggest you check these hoses before doing anything else ....... it still could well be the large steel pipes but lets hope not. (fingers crossed smilie)

Thanks John, so it sounds as though 061156 is a potential culprit and runs through the tunnel. Is it easy to bypass without removing much? Where does the end of 061158 small diameter heater pipe sit?


clee wrote:Unusual for the steel pipes to rot inside the tunnel area .They normally go where they stick out at the front .Yes,check the heater hoses as one of them comes through the tunnel so could be it's gone there .The one that connects to small steel pipe is outside the tunnel so can't see that one being the cause .
Image


Hi Lee, is the potential culprit heater pipe visible in your photo? Any tips on checking it without good access to the tunnel?
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby clee » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:05 pm

In the bonnet next to the bat tray under the covers ...One goes into the tunnel and to the rh rad hose,other does not enter the tunnel but attaches to the steel pipe where it sticks out the side of the tunnel .
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I doubt it will be these pipes but worth checking .
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby gchristofi » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:07 pm

clee wrote:In the bonnet next to the bat tray under the covers ...One goes into the tunnel and to the rh rad hose,other does not enter the tunnel but attaches to the steel pipe where it sticks out the side of the tunnel .
Image
I doubt it will be these pipes but worth checking .

Excellent, thank you, I will check these.
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby clee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:13 pm

WP_20150617_006.jpg

Stripping out the yellow GTA here for front crossmember rot repairs so took the opportunity ....This is what's going on under the covers ....
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby gchristofi » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:02 pm

clee wrote:
WP_20150617_006.jpg

Stripping out the yellow GTA here for front crossmember rot repairs so took the opportunity ....This is what's going on under the covers ....

Thanks Lee, will be having another look later today if all goes to plan.
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby turbell » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:25 pm

Lubricated gradient...............eight and five...... :wave
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Re: First100 miles:beginning of the end or end of the beginn

Postby Custard » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:00 pm

Looking at the rust on the side, I suspect there is nuthing left under the fiberglass cap, a bit mour fabrication required :(
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